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 The Secret Life Of Bees

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PostSubject: The Secret Life Of Bees   Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:08 pm



This month we are reading two books, up first is The Secret Life of Bees by Sue Monk Kidd. Here's what Amazon has to say about our chosen book selection:
Quote :

In Sue Monk Kidd's The Secret Life of Bees, 14-year-old Lily Owen, neglected by her father and isolated on their South Carolina peach farm, spends hours imagining a blissful infancy when she was loved and nurtured by her mother, Deborah, whom she barely remembers. These consoling fantasies are her heart's answer to the family story that as a child, in unclear circumstances, Lily accidentally shot and killed her mother. All Lily has left of Deborah is a strange image of a Black Madonna, with the words "Tiburon, South Carolina" scrawled on the back. The search for a mother, and the need to mother oneself, are crucial elements in this well-written coming-of-age story set in the early 1960s against a background of racial violence and unrest. When Lily's beloved nanny, Rosaleen, manages to insult a group of angry white men on her way to register to vote and has to skip town, Lily takes the opportunity to go with her, fleeing to the only place she can think of--Tiburon, South Carolina--determined to find out more about her dead mother. Although the plot threads are too neatly trimmed, The Secret Life of Bees is a carefully crafted novel with an inspired depiction of character. The legend of the Black Madonna and the brave, kind, peculiar women who perpetuate Lily's story dominate the second half of the book, placing Kidd's debut novel squarely in the honored tradition of the Southern Gothic.

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PostSubject: Re: The Secret Life Of Bees   Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:54 pm

Okay, I finally started this book, although I am only a few pages in at the moment- Not my fault though, Stephen King just had to come out with a novel full of short stories. The only thing that could have kept my attention would be to have had the dad stung to death the night she tried to show him the bees. I think that would have been very cool, but perhaps its a bit morbid for Dakota Fanning movie- although I think there's a movie she made where she gets raped?.

Anyways, I will try to get into it this weekend.

How is everyone else coming along with it?

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PostSubject: Re: The Secret Life Of Bees   Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:21 pm

Okay, I finished Secret Life of Bees last night- it helps that I spent all Saturday night watching an old man in the hospital and in between forcing him to stay in bed and dodging the pillows he was throwing at me, I was able to finish most of it. There are some discussion questions that are included in the copy I have of the book that I will post later.

Normally this book is not one I would read on my own. I had seen the book everywhere, but I wasn't interested at first. It looked like your run of the mill Oprah Winfrey book of the month. But when I saw the movie preview and finally found out what the book was about, I was intrigued.

Reading this book, in light of the fact that we've just elected the first ever black president, was a little surreal. It's sad to think that less than 50 years ago, despite the fact that African Americans had their freedom, they had very little rights. Racism is still a problem, but in the South, in the sixties, it was running rampant. Even Lily, who seems very open minded, finds she had her own prejudices she wasn't even aware of.

I loved that each chapter had little bee factoids. I'll admit that I have a long history of bee fear. Bees scare the crap out of me, even more than spiders. Now, having read the book, I have a little more respect for the stinging insects.

So, I liked the book. But I didn't love it. It was less than a happy story, although it resolved itself fairly well. I doubt it will be a book I re-read again and again, but I really did enjoy August and the whole spending the month of your namesake doing whatever you want. I personally celebrate the whole month of May as my Birthday Month, so I can appreciate that. XD

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PostSubject: Re: The Secret Life Of Bees   Fri Nov 28, 2008 12:03 pm

COUNT DOWN HAS BEGUN!!! bom

The count down has officially begun as to whether or not I will actually finish the Secret Life of Bees before the month of November has run out on me.

The Facts:

1. I have only made it to page 12 No

2. only THREE full days remain in November What a Face

3. I am very popular and therefore have plans on all 3 of those days affraid

Today is Friday, I am working but I am taking my computer to get fixed tomorrow so I am spending the majority of my time at work going through it and making sure I have anything priceless off of it, just incase.
Then tonight I really need to finish cleaning my apartment before tomorrow.
Tomorrow is my BIRTHDAY queen !!! Breakfast with my mom and sisters, running errands the middle of the day, spending the afternoon with my aunt and cousin and in the evening TWILIGHT and then everyone will be invited back to my place for cake!
Sunday will end up being my best shot to have any time to read. Church in the morning and dinner with my family are my only plans. But I will be cooking in the afternoon, I am making a cheesecake to take to dinner that night and my Dad will be making chicken parmesan (my fav. Very Happy ).

So what will happen? Will I be able to finish? I mean I only have 63 more hours to actually finish the book! I haven't missed a deadline since our very first book. Sorry Kate Wink
Well I guess there is only one way to find out...I better get reading study
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PostSubject: Re: The Secret Life Of Bees   Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:30 am

Well, I finished it on Sunday night, and I thought it was okay. I don't like bees and this book didn't change anything. The ending was kind of predictable, especially after watching the movie trailer. Overall, eh. I'll write more when I'm done with papers and tests.

ps. I thought twilight improved with a second viewing.
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PostSubject: Re: The Secret Life Of Bees   Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:52 pm

Now that it's been a few weeks since I read the book, I have to be honest and say that it hasn't really stayed with me. You know how sometimes you finish reading a book and you're sad? Not because it didn't end well, but because you miss the characters? Yeah, this wasn't one of those books for me. I liked it, but I don't think I'll be in any hurry to re-read it anytime soon.

But we'll continue to discuss once Bittner gets done, she has a little while longer to finish it. I am stopping by the library today to get my copy of The Godfather. I'm actually looking forward a bit to it, despite the fact that it's not a book I'd usually pick out for myself. I went through a brief Mob Love phase when I was a young teen- Christian Slater in Mobsters, and Jackie Collins' trashy sex/mob/money books Chances and Lucky (and several other sequels which I have continued to read, gosh, I love the Santangelo family, even if I normally hide my liking for the books because they are so very trashy).

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PostSubject: Re: The Secret Life Of Bees   Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:51 pm

I FINISHED I FINISHED IT TOOK ME LONG ENOUGH BUT I FINISHED!!! Very Happy

Just after midnight last night I finally finished this book.
I am totally going to cop-out behind the excuse that November has not been a good month for me and reading. With everything that happened at the beginning of the month I just didn't fell like picking up a book and reading. And then we had Coldplay, the holidays and my birthday. So i'm sorry but November just wasn't a good month for me. However I am going to make up for it with a really kick ass posting tongue (and a really long one but stick with me it's not that boring)
The first 100 pages I was not interested at all in the book. Then just after page 100 I started to pick up the pace and was slightly enjoying it. Then around page 180 I was like good Lord this book is boring and driving me crazy! You do not know how hard it was for me to NOT skip ahead! Then on page 235 when she finally tells August the truth, that was when I got to the point where I found myself reading for hours with out putting it down. I was more interested in Lilly's story and even though I liked May I found the whole section where she died to be really boring and was ready to get back to the real story.
This was yet another book, where the movie totally swayed how I felt toward the characters. Which is strange because I haven't seen the movie yet.
Even though I love Dakota Fanning (who doesn't ) I didn't really feel that attachted to Lilly. But when she started having the hots for Zach, picturing them both todether, I was like "whoa Dakota stop it your 8 Exclamation " I am so not looking forward to the day she pulls a Drew Barrymore and makes Posion Ivy 6!
I am not a fan of Jennifer Hudson. But I also didn't really like Rosaleen. I have to admitt my first reaction to her pouring the snuff on the guys shoes in the beginning was "ew, and was that really necessary" I felt like it was uncalled for, all they were doing was yelling at her. But at the same time I have never had to face an injustice like that. And I guess if you need to fight back you can't always wait for the other guy to throw the first punch or you might not be able to get up and fight after he does.
I liked August and the sisters, although I HATE Alicia Keys and therefore it took me a long time to come to terms with June and by the end of the book I still don't think I really cared for her all that much. I have only seen Sophia Okonedo in one movie, Martian Child, and she had a very small part. ***sidebar- Martian Child is an awesome movie for any John Cusack fans out there!
The biggest place where the casting of the movie swayed me towards a character was with T. Ray. I just love Paul Bettany I love you I mean the guy is freaking adorable, so how could T. Ray really be all that bad. I found myself wanting to redeem him. So by the end of the book as soon as August told Lilly how much he had loved her mother and that he all but worshiped her, I was like "see it wasn't his fault. He loved her and she left him. And now he is stuck raising this little girl who looks just like her and reminds him of what he lost. And see he was a good guy once, it wasn't his fault."
Now two pages that I marked in the book were 271 and 289.
271 is where Lilly thinks about the question; if you could have any of the miracles from the Bible happen to you which would you choose? I just thought it was a really interesting question. I would pick the story where a blind man comes up behind Jesus and clutches at his robes. Jesus turns around and asks him what the deepest desire of his heart is and the man replys "to see", Jesus rubs mud into the mans eyes and tells him to go wash it off and when he does he can see.
Then on page 289 I just liked the line where August says "And whatever it is that keeps widening your heart, that's Mary, too, not only the power inside you but the love. And when you get down to it Lilly, that's the only purpose grand enough for a human life. Not just to love- but to persist in love."
Now for the discussion questions.

1. WEREYOU SURPRISED TO LEARN THAT T. RAY USED TO BE DIFFERENT, THAT HE ONCE TRULY LOVED DEBORAH? HOW DO YOU THINK DEBORAH'S LEAVING AFFECTED HIM? DID IT SHED ANY LIGHT ON WHY T. RAY WAS SO CRUEL AND ABUSIVE TO LILY?
Well I already mentioned that I was releaved to see that once upon a time T. Ray was a good guy.

2. HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF KNEELING ON GRITS? WHAT QUALITIES DID LILY HAVE THAT ALLOWED HER TO SURVIVE, ENDURE, AND EVENTUALLY THRIVE, DESPITE T. RAY/
I had never heard of people kneeling on grits and when she first wrote about it I felt compelled to look up grits on the internet thinking surely there had to be some other kind of grit then just the food that she was referring to.

3. WHO IS THE QUEEN BEE?
Queen bee, obviously August. Not only was she the head of the house hold but she stepped in as the mother for Deborah, Lilly, Zach, and even in a way for Rosaleen.
However something else just occured to me now, (12/10) while udating my post for Kate. What if the queen bee was Deborah? In the book they mention that with out the queen bee the other bees in the hive loose their way, their identities, they no-longer have someone to serve. T. Ray lost himself when she left him, Lily grieved a hole that was left inside her when she lost Deborah, May grieved her as well, and even though it wasn't dwelt on it is clear that June and August were probably strongly affected by the loss. Maybe there can't be more than one queen bee in a hive, but among humans there can be dozens. And maybe Deborah was one for Lily and T. Ray. I love the idea of the queen bee not only being a character that we never met, but one that our hero (lily) never really met either.

4. WHAT HAPPENS TO A DAUGHTER WHEN SHE DISCOVERS HER MOTHER ONCE ABANDONED HER? GENERALLY WOULD PEOPLE RATHER DIE THAN FORGIVE? WHAT IS HARDER FOR LILY TO FORGIVE HER MOTHER OR FORGIVE HERSELF?
The relaionship between a mother and a daughter is a very strange one. Especially on the side of the daughter. As I have stated before I am a daddy's girl to the core. My father is an amazing dad but he can be a real prick sometimes. But I have found that even in the times when he can act like a real jackass, it never phazes me. It never tarnishes how I see him. He is my hero and always will be. He would never even have to ask for my forgiveness on anything because it never occurs to me that he would need to be forgiven. However with my mom. She can make one small mistake and I resent her for it. One mistake and it takes weeks to forgive her. One small mistake and she better come begging for me to forgive her. Don't get me wrong, I can see just how unfair that is, now. But when I was in highschool, I hated her. And it took me a long time to realize how much of that was my fault. But who can really explain why girls are so unforgiving of their mother's flaws?
I think it was harder for Lilly to forgive herself. At the point in her life that we shared with her, she was mainly grieving the realization that her mother had left her and yes that was hard. But I think a lot of the self doubt in those instences where she saw herself as unlovable was because of the blame she put on herself.
I do think it is hard to forgive. But I would like to believe that more often than you would think that people do want to forgive.

5. HAVE YOU EVER HAD A MOTHER FIGURE IN YOUR LIFE WHO WASN'T YOUR TRUE MOTHER? HAVE YOU EVER HAD TO LEAVE HOME TO FIND A HOME?
The only person in my life who took care of me like a mother other than my actual mother was my grandmother. But there wasn't really anyone outside my family. However when I was in highscool and just after, I found my home with my friends more than with my actual family members. But I do have a good family even if we don't always get along. So I have never had to go too far.

6. WHAT COMPEDLLED ROSALEEN TO SPIT ON THE THREE MEN'S SHOES? WHAT DOES IT TAKE FOR A PERSON TO STAND UP WITH CONVICTION AGAINST BRUTALIZING INJUSTICE? WHAT DID YOU LIKE BEST ABOUT ROSALEEN?
Well, like I said I didn't really like Rosaleen but I can't say how much of that was brought on by the Huddson factor. And also like I said I have never been in the position to be forced to standing up for a conviction. I would like to think that if I would ever need to I would, but in all honesty I don't have a very strong personality. I am not much of a fighter.

7. HAD YOU EVER HEARD OF THE BLACK MADONNA? WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE STORY SURROUNDING THE BLACK MADONNA IN THE NOVEL? HOW WOULD THTE STORY BE DIFFERENT IF IT HAD BEEN A PICTURE OF A WHITE VIRGIN MARY? DO YOU KNOW WOMEN WHOSE LIVES HAVE BEEN DEEPENED OF ENRICHED TO AN EMPOWERING DIVINE MOTHER?
I really appreciated the use of certain Catholic beliefs in the book. I liked that they took the parts that they understood and made it their own. I have heard of a Black Madonna and I actually prefer the picuters of Jesus and Mary that depict them with darker skin. I mean because if you look at a map, odds are they weren't pale white with where they were coming from. Now, I was not raised in a religious home and deffinatly not a Catholic one. I didn't start studing it until I was much older. It is hard to register how much my life has been "enriched" by putting more importance in Mary then before. But I can say that since I started studing Catholisim and then later when I was confirmed, I have always been grateful to embrace that side of my faith. I love praying the rosary and celebrating all of Mary's different Holy Days. I don't fully understand her story but again, I am very grateful for her.

8. WHY IS IT IMPORTANT THAT WOMEN COME TOGETHER? WHAT DID YOU THINK OF THE CALENDER SISTERS AND THE DAUGHTERS OF MARY? HOW DID BEING IN THE COMPANY OF THIS CIRCLE OF FEMALES TRANSFORM LILY?
The reason I think a group of women is so empowering is because that is where women can be the most vulnerable. It is hard to be vulnerable around guys. Now some girls can have a guy friend that is just a friend that they can be utterly and completly vulnerable with, letting down all the guards and walls, but that is rare. It is easier to have that kind of relationship with other women. And when you can find that core group of women that you can open up to, it is there that you can also draw upon the most strength.

9. MAY BUILT THE WAILING WALL TO HELP HER COME TO TERMS WITH THE PAIN SHE FELT. EVEN THOUGH WE DON'T HAVE MAY'S CONDITION, DO WE ALSO NEED RITUALS TO HELP US DEAL WITH OUR GRIEF AND SUFFERING?
I like the idea of having a whailing wall, but at the same time wouldn't it also serve as a reminder. About 6 years ago I started a habbit of writing down things I was frustrated about or angry about and then I would drop them into a box, and then put the box in the very back of my closet. I think that was a long the same kind of line as to what May was doing. Of course I didn't use my box as frequantly as she went to the wall. And I also fell out of practise of using the box and I don't even think I have it anymore.

10. HOW DID YOU DESCRIBE ZACH AND LILY'S RELATIONSHIP? WHAT DREW THEM TOGETHER? DID YOU ROOT FOR THEM TO BE TOGETHER?
I will always root for a love story no matter how small it is. But I didn't really see anything that brought Lilly and Zack together other then, he was hot and she needed a friend.

11. PROJECT THE FUTURE. DOES LILY EVER SEE HER FATHER AGAIN? DOES SHE BECOME A BEE KEEPER? A WRITER? WHAT HAPPENS TO ROSALEEN? WHAT HAPPENS TO ZACH AND LILY? WHO WOULD ZACH BE TODAY?
THE FUTURE. Lilly stays with August until she goes off to college. Coming back to visit during breaks and helps with the bees in the summer. But later she does become a writer. I don't see her and Zach actually ending up together. But he does become a lawyer and makes a pretty good name for himself, gets married and has 2 kids. After Lilly graduates college she goes home to visit T. Ray and show him her diploma. Later she ends up getting married to one of the publishers that works at the company that publishes her books, they meet at some small party the publishing house throws for Lilly's upcoming release. All the while she goes home to visit T. Ray once a year, in early May while she is on her way to see August. She invites him to her wedding but doesn't ask him to walk her down the aisle. She gets married in a small outdoor ceromony at August's house. Zach is there with his fiance (they aren't married just yet) and so are all of the Daughert's of Mary. and Rosaleen who has continued to stay with August. Lilly ends up having one daughter. She continues to visit T. Ray and as he gets older she begins to make her visits to him more than just once a year. She brings him picuters of her daughter but holds off on an actual introduciton. Then when he is just but a few short years from death (lung cancer) she does bring her daughter (who is either named May or July) to meet him.
You see I do think there was a part of Lilly that yearned for him to love her. So once she starts to make a life for herself I can see her wanting to go back and show him how good she turned out. Then as he gets older that is when she finally forgives him.
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PostSubject: Re: The Secret Life Of Bees   Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:59 am

1. WEREYOU SURPRISED TO LEARN THAT T. RAY USED TO BE DIFFERENT, THAT HE ONCE TRULY LOVED DEBORAH? HOW DO YOU THINK DEBORAH'S LEAVING AFFECTED HIM? DID IT SHED ANY LIGHT ON WHY T. RAY WAS SO CRUEL AND ABUSIVE TO LILY?
No, not really. The beginning kind of reminded me of Heaven by V.C. Andrews, without the usual V.C. Andrews incest...

2. HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF KNEELING ON GRITS? WHAT QUALITIES DID LILY HAVE THAT ALLOWED HER TO SURVIVE, ENDURE, AND EVENTUALLY THRIVE, DESPITE T. RAY/
My people invented kneeling on grits... Just joking. No, I didn't even know what grits were until I moved to OK. I'm kind of impressed at T Ray's inventiveness. As for Lily's qualities, I think the best one that served her well was her imagination and her courage. Running away from crazy daddy was a pretty bold move.

3. WHO IS THE QUEEN BEE?
I have to go with August, the way she inspired everyone around her, how they moved around her as if drawing strength from her. August heals both Lily and Ros, helping Lily to grow up and see her parents for the flawed humans they are, but also to see the beauty and design of life. August rocks!

4. WHAT HAPPENS TO A DAUGHTER WHEN SHE DISCOVERS HER MOTHER ONCE ABANDONED HER? GENERALLY WOULD PEOPLE RATHER DIE THAN FORGIVE? WHAT IS HARDER FOR LILY TO FORGIVE HER MOTHER OR FORGIVE HERSELF?
First of all, women are always harder on each other. The mother daughter dynamic is the similar to the father son one. Children, to a certain age, define themselves by their parents, as they grow older they begin to assert their independence. Lily's mom dying so young never gave her the chance to see her mother for how she truly was. The one Lily created in her mind was made up of mystery and perfection, realizing that her mother was weak- at least for awhile, causes Lily to hate her. But often what we hate in others is what we dislike in ourselves.
I don't think most people would rather die than forgive, that's just silly. But I think learning to forgive yourself is the hardest thing to do, same as it is for Lily.

5. HAVE YOU EVER HAD A MOTHER FIGURE IN YOUR LIFE WHO WASN'T YOUR TRUE MOTHER? HAVE YOU EVER HAD TO LEAVE HOME TO FIND A HOME?
I have been very fortunate in my life to have known some truly great women that have been like second mom's to me. My grandmother's first cousin, Leona, was there for me after my grandmother's death, and took care of me while my father and mother dealt with my dad's illness. She's one of the most wonderful women I know. I was also blessed to meet Michelle, and through her, her mother and grandmother, who took me in as one of their own while I was so far from my family. I always tease Michelle about stealing her grandmother, but I don't need to, because her family has always shared themselves unselfishly with me.

6. WHAT COMPEDLLED ROSALEEN TO SPIT ON THE THREE MEN'S SHOES? WHAT DOES IT TAKE FOR A PERSON TO STAND UP WITH CONVICTION AGAINST BRUTALIZING INJUSTICE? WHAT DID YOU LIKE BEST ABOUT ROSALEEN?
While I found the tobacco chewing distasteful, I admire Ros for what she did. She had started the day full of hope, getting a chance to register to vote, and those men took some of her dignity, saying the things they did to her. She fought back the only way she knew how to at that time. I think most people have a point where they can't stand back and allow injustices to be done, I think that's just hard wired into us. What I liked best about Ros: That she registered to vote despite being a wanted criminal, and I liked that she loved Lily, her jealousy over August proved that.

7. HAD YOU EVER HEARD OF THE BLACK MADONNA? WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE STORY SURROUNDING THE BLACK MADONNA IN THE NOVEL? HOW WOULD THTE STORY BE DIFFERENT IF IT HAD BEEN A PICTURE OF A WHITE VIRGIN MARY? DO YOU KNOW WOMEN WHOSE LIVES HAVE BEEN DEEPENED OF ENRICHED TO AN EMPOWERING DIVINE MOTHER?
I've seen depictions of the Black Madonna, but I had never studied anything about it. As for the depiction in the novel- there is something inside people, the part of them that wants to believe, that gives them strength. The arrival of the Black Madonna was to them a sign from heaven, the promise of better things to come. I thought the story of her breaking free from the chains a beautiful one. How would the story be different if the picture had shown a white Madonna? Ummm... that's a stupid question. It was the driving force of the book, so without the Black Madonna there wouldn't be a Secret Life of Bees. And don't even get the last question. If it means do I know women with awesome mothers who have made them awesome people, then yes. But if you're asking if I know anyone that prays to boat head figures in their living room, then the answer is no.

8. WHY IS IT IMPORTANT THAT WOMEN COME TOGETHER? WHAT DID YOU THINK OF THE CALENDER SISTERS AND THE DAUGHTERS OF MARY? HOW DID BEING IN THE COMPANY OF THIS CIRCLE OF FEMALES TRANSFORM LILY?
I think women need each other. We need to talk, to encourage. Most men aren't really capable of that. XD What I liked most about these groups of women is that they supported each other, there was very little gossip and backstabbing which can sometimes (okay, most times) occur when women get together. Older women seem to be better at communicating (although not always, one of my clients had two sister-in-laws who she always hung out with, but they could be sooooo catty with each other). Lily, motherless, benefited from being around women with obvious affection towards one another.

9. MAY BUILT THE WAILING WALL TO HELP HER COME TO TERMS WITH THE PAIN SHE FELT. EVEN THOUGH WE DON'T HAVE MAY'S CONDITION, DO WE ALSO NEED RITUALS TO HELP US DEAL WITH OUR GRIEF AND SUFFERING?
I think the obvious answer to the question is yes (I have to say, some of these questions are silly, who comes up with this crap?)

10. HOW DID YOU DESCRIBE ZACH AND LILY'S RELATIONSHIP? WHAT DREW THEM TOGETHER? DID YOU ROOT FOR THEM TO BE TOGETHER?
Puppy love is how I would describe it. Lily really hasn't been around a whole lot of boys before, and having been poor and unpopular she wasn't exactly drawing the local boys to her. She and Zach are an unknown quantity to each other. Plus, Zach sounds hot, so that could be part of it. I did root for them to be together, but I was scared for him.

11. PROJECT THE FUTURE. DOES LILY EVER SEE HER FATHER AGAIN? DOES SHE BECOME A BEE KEEPER? A WRITER? WHAT HAPPENS TO ROSALEEN? WHAT HAPPENS TO ZACH AND LILY? WHO WOULD ZACH BE TODAY?
I think Lily does stay with the bee keeping, as well as the writing. I don't know if I see her becoming a famous writer, but I think she does okay for herself. Rosaleen stays with August and Lily, and chews tobacco until she dies peacefully on the porch in a rocker years and years later. I don't think Zach and Lily end up together. I think he goes on to be a lawyer and to change a small part of the world, but to do so he can't stay in the small town. I think he marries someone else with his same desires to make the world a better place for all races. You know, I just can't see Lily getting hitched, I think she stays single, maybe eventually taking in a runaway like herself someday. T. Ray dies a early death, but I think Lily has some contact with him towards the end, but they never reconcile. He's just too broken for that.

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PostSubject: Re: The Secret Life Of Bees   Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:28 pm

"Madonna" is another term used for Mary. So when people make references to a "Black Madonna" they are talking about a statue or picture that shows Mary as being darker skinned. This actually happend a lot in Europe, from what I have read the statues would be dark because of the material used or because people would pray infront of them with candels and over time they would get soot and debrie on them. I also read once that some of the depictions of Mary with darker toned skinned, were painted over to give her lighter skin during the whole segregation and pre-civil rights era here in the states. Only to be painted back over for full restoration once the civil rights movement had died down and people came to their senses. Now there are hundreds of statues of a Black Madonna that all have special stories and miracles associated with them, so I don't know for sure if the one used in the book was based on a real statue, but I have never heard that particular story before.
So anyway, the last part of question 7 was basically asking if you new anyone who has had their life enriched by a their belief in Mary.
That is why my answer was that I don't know how enriched my life has been but I am grateful for my relationship and belief in her.
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PostSubject: Re: The Secret Life Of Bees   Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:49 pm

It's still a crap question.


What a Face

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PostSubject: Re: The Secret Life Of Bees   Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:52 pm

well, I don't think it is a crap question. Neutral oh no wait I have a better face hold on... Rolling Eyes there that is me rolling my eyes at you saying that that is a crap question!! Wink

Anyway, last night I went and saw the Secret Life of Bees at the dollar theater. There were some settle differences. One I was grateful for was the seen were Lily and Zach go to the movie theater. In the book I almost didn't understand why Zach brought her along for that if he knew it was going to be dangerous. In the movie, he offers to take her to a movie to cheer her up, they pay seperatly and go in seperatly but they do sit by eachother. Then people come in to make them seperate and that is how Zach gets beat and then arrested.
Another difference was at the end when T. Ray was driving off and Lily runs after him. Instead of asking him if she did indeed kill her mother, she simply asks him why he lied to her. He admitts that Lily's mother did come back for her and says he lied because she didn't come back for him. Which I liked because it showed more sympothy for T. Ray and because I like the idea better that Lily had known all along, never doubted that she was the one who killed her mother.
And ok, I actually thought that Alicia Keys and Jennifer Hudson, both did a really good job. I'm sorry it is just that Jennifer seemed so phoney in Sex and the City and anyone who watched The Hills last year and saw that little show that Alicia Keys had that came on during commercial breaks, can not blame me for having my doubts about her. Now Jennifer I will begin to put more trust into. But it is going to take a lot more than this one movie to erase that seen of Alicia singing "Aint' no Mountain High Enough" to Nick Lachey. I mean that acting was so bad, it keeps me up at night. affraid
They did down play the Daughters of Mary in the movie which I didn't mind, it did help the movie go along faster.
Dakota Fanning was of course perfect and the scene where she confronts August made me a little teary eyed Crying or Very sad
I was most dissapointed with Paul Bettany though. I mean he did a such a great job that at times he was barely recognizable. But I couldn't help missing that lovely accent of his. I love you Ah, well, I'll just have to go home and watch Wimbledon...again Wink
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The Secret Life Of Bees
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